How to Craft Brand Messaging that Resonates & Converts (Without Bashing Your Head Against the Wall)

How to Craft Brand Messaging that Resonates & Converts (Without Bashing Your Head Against the Wall)

Getting your messaging right is the first step to convert leads and prospects into buyers.

Why? 

It’s because your brand messaging can act as a conversation starter.  You probably have heard many marketers use this dating analogy when they explain the concept of know, like & trust, which helps turn spectators into buyers.

“You don’t just ask him/her to marry you on the first date.”

If you have your brand messaging down, this serves as the first date that goes really well so that it will lead to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th date to develop know, like & trust between you and your leads.

Sadly though, many business owners don’t allocate enough time and energy to crafting their brand messaging.  This became apparent through local Meetup events I host in NYC.

There are 3 types of not-so-ideal messaging I’ve picked up on while listening to the event participants introduce themselves to the rest of the crowd. 

1.     Too generic as for what they offer & who they are, i.e. social media strategist, accountant, SEO specialist.

2.     Too clever with flashy words but unclear as to who they help or what problem they solve.

3.     Only list what they sell.

There is absolutely no need to beat yourself up if you are guilty of these.  Trust me, I can speak from my own experience that crafting good brand messaging for your business is no small feat.

This is why I invited Zach Messler, a.k.a. “Messaging Guy”, as the guest speaker for my May Meetup event in Brooklyn to get to the bottom of this messaging challenge we all face.  He is the master of helping business owners identify what to say and how to say it so that they make a bigger impact on the world and their wallet.

When I met Zach earlier this year, I immediately liked the way he breaks down the process of crafting messaging that resonates and converts with simple steps.  After checking out his website, it was a no brainer for me to have him for one of my events.  

In this post, I am excited to share his framework and how you can improve your brand messaging to generate measurable results without bashing your head against the wall.

So, let’s dive in!

How to Handle Collections & Refund Requests: The Secret for Keeping the Money & Keeping Your Customers Happy

How to Handle Collections & Refund Requests: The Secret for Keeping the Money & Keeping Your Customers Happy

“Maiko, there was a client who just called up the office really angry, demanding a refund.  He was really angry & rude yelling at me the whole time...  What do we do?!!!  I didn’t know what to say, so I just told him someone will get back to him… He wasn’t happy to hear that…”

 

Clearly, the person who took the call was caught off guard and was shaken up by what she had to go through.

Before going any further, let me paint a picture here.

In this particular case, the person who called angry isn’t my client.  That is my client’s client.  Nonetheless it is a huge deal.

Why?

Because here, we aren’t talking about a mere $195 refund.  If it were, I would be saying, “Please don’t waste my time with it.”  How about 100x that?

Yep, try $19,500.

What if this happens to YOU?

What would be your first reaction?

Let me guess, right about now there are hundreds of scenarios running through your mind a mile per second. Am I right?

 

“How do I NOT refund this guy?  What are my options?”

“How much would I be able to keep?”

“What if we don’t have any choice but to give the money back?!!! We don’t have any room for this!”

 

If this happened 10 years ago, this kind of news would put me in a panic attack for 5 min. My heart would be racing with an immense amount of stress. Since then, I’ve handled countless non-payment and refund cases over $30K+ per pop. 

So nowadays, my usual response is:

“Alright. Get me all the intel about him.”

See, ideally no business owners should get to this point without doing due diligence to consistently weed out clients from hell. At the same time, though, even with the best intention & strategy, we aren’t completely immune to this kind of incident from time to time.

Here we are.  What's done is done.  There’s no going back. 

So, what do we do now?  What would YOU do?!

7 Signs Why Going Hyper Local & Offering Super High-Touch Interactions Are the Ultimate Future-Proof Strategy: The Hidden Business Gold Mine You May Be Overlooking

7 Signs Why Going Hyper Local & Offering Super High-Touch Interactions Are the Ultimate Future-Proof Strategy: The Hidden Business Gold Mine You May Be Overlooking

As a kid growing up in Japan, I used to daydream about what might be out there waiting for me beyond the ocean lines. 

Because I lived in an island nation, my excitement for the unknown and the future was that much more intense. Unlike living in Austria or Bolivia, islanders are truly isolated by oceans. We simply have no concept of “just crossing the border.”  In other words, living abroad is very foreign to us.

I had all sorts of romantic & wild notions about the idea of living abroad & how different and special my life could be.

Fast forwarding 10 years to when I found myself in the US as an exchange student, I realized it wasn’t all that I imagined as a kid. Right then & there, I realized I took so many things for granted when I lived in Japan, especially things my parents had provided for me. 

This was a priceless lesson in my teenage years:  Appreciate everything; do not take things for granted, however small they may be. How ungrateful I must have looked in their eyes, dying & rushing to get out of where I was, all just to be let down by reality later on?  Like a deserter tumbling down the sand dunes, I ran towards a flowing spring of water, only to discover it was a mirage.

Wanting to rely on getting easy leads online is a lot like this story.  Many of us often romanticize what it would be like to get online prospects into our sales funnel semi-automatically by offering free, downloadable cheat sheets, check lists, webinars, video trainings, etc.  Heck, we can even invest a little in paid ads.  How wonderful it would be!

Now your brain will go haywire with all kinds of expectations.

“No more networking.  No more cold calling.  No more selling.  No more RFP’s.  I don’t even need to leave my house.  Better yet, I can sit by the beach with my laptop & WIFI… I’ll hire help remotely.  People will just buy my stuff online… One-to-one is so yesterday.  One-to-many is the future!”

The Essential Guide to Long-Form Content Creation: Why This Is All You Need to Do for Your Service Business

The Essential Guide to Long-Form Content Creation: Why This Is All You Need to Do for Your Service Business

This guide is for you if the bulk of your leads comes from offline, i.e. referrals and sales, and not from online, i.e. social media, webinar, live stream, and you want to boost your business’s online presence to build repetition (future-proof'ing), and you aren't sure where to start.

"Should I give Instagram a try?"

"Should I do a podcast?"

“Should I hire someone for social media?"

I hear these questions a lot from business owners who haven’t done many of these online activities and only have a very basic website with no content that gets added regularly. If this is you, there is nothing wrong with getting your leads offline.  But at where you are, these are wrong, fragmented questions that will keep you from building a solid base online.

Instead, I'd love you to take a step back and ask this question:

"What content creation strategy should I invest my time in to increase my online presence and stick with & leverage?"

The answer is:  Invest in long-form written content & post on your website regularly.

This strategy comes from my deep belief in building the smallest, meanest profit generating machine, in which you can do business activities that require less effort but produce the maximum effect over time. (Link) 

OK, it doesn’t sound like the sexy answer you were looking for.  But as you read along, you will find out just how smart this strategy really is.

When you focus on what generates compounding effect in your business, you will find yourself putting a lot of effort in the beginning of the process. This is actually the way it should be.  What you are aiming for is to eventually automate the process you are building right now.  To do this, front-loading work is inevitable.

This is the same reason many entrepreneurs don't opt for this route because it completely lacks instant gratification. The work seems endless and tiresome in the face of headlines like:

"How I got 5,000 followers on Instagram in just one week.” 

"How I made $10,000 directly from my Facebook group with 1 offer."

"The secret to my 200K traffic per month to my blog."

What these headlines don't tell you is what goes on behind closed doors.  Most of these posts do not answer the following questions:

Supercharge Your “Non-Stop Referral Pipeline” in 15 min or Less Each Day by Doing These 11 “Referral-Inducing” Activities

Supercharge Your “Non-Stop Referral Pipeline” in 15 min or Less Each Day by Doing These 11 “Referral-Inducing” Activities

I have a random question for you.  What cell phone carrier do you use? 

I’ve been using Sprint PCS forever.  Frankly, I don’t even know why.  It’s not so much that I am loyal to them, but more so that it works, and they don’t bother me much.

However, there were a few occasions over the years when I seriously considered switching to another carrier, and I finally had to ask them:

 

“Why are you (Sprint PCS) giving so many incentives to NEW CUSTOMERS & not the ones who have been with you the whole time?!”

 

Can you relate? 

I don’t think it matters which carrier you use.  In the US, as far as I know, carrier companies are obsessed with stealing customers from their competitors and completely neglecting their existing customers. I can see that it has loosened up a bit recently, but 5 to 7 years ago, it was so painfully obvious that the only thing they cared about was acquiring new customers.

To make matters worse, most of the carriers have a hefty penalty in place for those who want to switch carriers before their contract expires.  It’s a punishment for leaving your carrier. 

How’s that for CX (customer experience)?  I say it’s a crappy one, for sure. 

You must have seen this pop-up window show up on any website asking, “From 0 to 10, how likely are you to recommend us to your friends?”  This is a part of NPS (net promoter score) in the world of CX.  In this case, I would score low for how likely I would be to refer Sprint to my friends.

To be clear, I am not ranting here about Sprint. I’m using this example purely to make my point for this post.  If this idea of being mistreated and under-appreciated resonates with this you, a long-time customer of any brand, you know how your existing customer may feel about your service.  So, let me ask you:

How have you been treating your existing customers lately? 

Behind the Scenes 3: Create Your Signature Workshop from Scratch

Behind the Scenes 3:  Create Your Signature Workshop from Scratch

Finally, the dust is settling after this year-long effort of creating a versatile signature workshop, which is to be repurposed into various content.

My mission for this series is to share the process exactly as it unfolds.  As you might have noticed, I have plenty of other posts that clearly outline how to do things for your business. This series does the opposite of that.

I’m baring it all this time in order to give you taste of the mess that goes into it.  As a result, my hope is for you to feel less intimidated by any business projects that you commit to in the long term.  Creating a signature workshop can provide many opportunities to grow your business relatively fast.  I hate to see you putting this off because you feel it is too big of a task to tackle. 

It's never pretty & it's perfectly OK.

Also, I want you to see how some things happen in a way that you could not have guessed. Both good & bad. 

This leads to another mission of mine- to prove that action creates clarity.

I often hear, "I need to know exactly what I'm doing before I get started."  Sure.  Have a plan so that, at least, you see a rough path in front of you. But my problem is the word, "exactly."

Sorry to disappoint, but you are not going to be able to know that unless you start.  What you can do instead is to course-correct along the way based on what you discover as you go. 

This is a kind of ambiguity that many get hung up on. The only thing I can tell you is... trust Nike's slogan- just do it.

In this post, I'm going to show you what that looks like. Trust me, by the time you finish reading this post, you will feel like you are a lot more “put together” than I did.

To do this, let’s break it down in 5 sections.

 

1. What I've Done for This 3rd Round of Workshops

2. What I Did Differently to Prep

3. Challenges I Faced

4. My Takeaways: Things to Improve & A New Plan to Move Forward

5. What Does All This Mean to You?

 

How to Set Priorities for Your Business, Even When Everything Seems Important: The “Thriller, Filler & Spiller” Method pt. 1

How to Set Priorities for Your Business, Even When Everything Seems Important: The “Thriller, Filler & Spiller” Method pt. 1

Have you ever just wanted to hit the refresh button & start over? 

No, I’m not talking about shutting down your business. I’m talking about starting over with a clean slate, so that you can see what matters most both in the long-term and short-term.

It happens to me when I know I have strayed too far from the vision for my business by getting bogged down on daily matters. This nagging feeling of “Ugh, I need to regroup!” starts to run in the background. The struggle is real. 

At that point, my brain is fried from daily tasks, and my vision is blurred.  I know to block out some time to step away from those tasks and cut off all communication, so that I can reassess my entire business.

If you have ever felt the same way, you are at the right place because what I am about to share here isn’t one of those stuffy “annual strategy planning processes” you find online, which are all based on the idea of starting from a target revenue number first.

Frankly, I don’t believe in this method. Starting from a revenue goal can completely derail your business, as you will put too much emphasis on hitting the target number and less emphasis on achieving your ultimate business vision.

It is not even sustainable, as it does not prepare you for potential incidents, wherein some of the strategies you rely on to hit that number suddenly stop working. By the time you realize you need another strategy to compensate for the loss, it is usually too late. From that point on, it will take minimally 3 times longer to get back to where it was.

Another widely known (and used) prioritization method is 4 Quadrant Method, which was devised by the legendary, Steven Covey. By only looking at the quadrants, it does not tell much in terms of what criteria one must go by deciding exactly WHAT IS:

Urgent & Important

Not Urgent, but Important

Urgent & Not Important

Not Urgent & Not Important

On the contrary, the “Thriller, Filler & Spiller” method is fluid, yet clear.  OK, I know the name is weird. But, everything I come up with is weird. By now, you are already aware of that, and I trust you are here to get the insights you can’t get anywhere else. In this case, I know I won’t let you down.

7 Surprisingly Easy Steps to Handle Difficult Conversations with Ease

7 Surprisingly Easy Steps to Handle Difficult Conversations with Ease

As a business owner, you will face conversations that you perceive as "difficult" or "confronting" from time to time.  Some of you may have more experience than others by holding a managerial position at a corporation.  But even then, having rather unpleasant conversations as a business owner is a whole other category, as you are the face of the company.

There are no other bosses to blame.  There is no brand name to hide behind and say, “They made me do it!  I’m just a messenger!”

As your business grows, your responsibility of looking after your business as a whole and assessing the overall well-being of it also grows significantly. 

It could be about firing one of your employees, especially when you break my golden rule- "No family or friends for hire."

It could be about unhappy customers demanding to speak to you.

In some cases, it's about your customers wanting a refund.

It may be that you need to tell vendors you want to stop working with them.

Or, you want to fire your client. 

 

They all sound unsavory, don’t they?

How would you say you feel when realizing you may have to handle these business matters?

Dreadful?
Heavy?
Depressed?
Exposed?
Confronted?
Conflicted?

Is your immediate reaction:

Wanting to avoid it at all cost?
Defensive?
Apprehensive?

 

What if I told you, by the end of this post, you may look forward to having these conversations because you have just acquired a new perspective? 

How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer Pt. 3: Three Ways to Future-Proof Your Niche

How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer Pt. 3: Three Ways to Future-Proof Your Niche

"I don't niche down, and let me explain why it works for me."

This tweet caught my eye earlier this year while I was working on pt. 1 & 2 of this "Niche Down" series.  I was intrigued.  This statement challenged what I practice and promote, and, immediately, I wanted to know more.

It originated from an influencer who seemed to be doing extremely well.  I always liked his overall message, although I'm not part of his target audience.  So, I happen to follow him over Twitter.

Once I got to the post where he explained why & how not niching down was the way to go, I realized his definition of "niching down" was… a little off.  In my eyes, he was totally niching down. 

He just didn't see it that way.

Note, I have no intention of calling someone out just to make a point that I'm right or nitpicking on what “niche down” should be. Doing so doesn't give value to anyone, including me.

Instead, I saw this as an opportunity.  I was so glad that I saw the tweet.  This was an indication that the concept of niching down may not be so straight forward for some, and I needed to articulate more clearly as to how to get this done right, so that no one wastes time or effort.  

The irony is that his business is clearly defined and niched down, but he tells his audience he does not believe in niching down. This can be confusing to many entrepreneurs.

In this final post of the 3-part series, "How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer," I'm going to lay out how to future-proof this process so that you are well on your way to success. 

But before diving in, let’s address what is going on here with this influencer.

This 1 Simple Exercise will Help You Stay in Alignment with Your Business Emotionally & Strategically

This 1 Simple Exercise will Help You Stay in Alignment with Your Business Emotionally & Strategically

Entrepreneurship comes with a full of surprises at all times.

If you are an aspiring business operator or an entrepreneur, you can probably relate to this statement. 

Right?

Just by looking at this year alone for my business, there were a few twists and turns I did not anticipate.  After all said and done, they were all good.  Yet these unexpected happenings can take you off the rail rather quickly ending up losing sight of what truly matters the most in your business.

When something good and unexpected happens, you do want to keep the momentum going to get the max out of what life throws at you.  Once that settles down, you might feel a little "off" about your business overall, and that's normal.  I have been there.  Many times.

In my previous post, I have covered the importance of simplifying your business in order to scale.  While you experience highs and lows through your business, being skillful at working continuously on simplifying your business depends on how much you feel aligned with your business emotionally and strategically.

In case you are wondering, emotional alignment and strategic alignment - both need to be met.  You can't just pick & choose if you want to achieve the best outcome possible for your business.

Here, I'm going to share a fun & simple exercise to achieve both at the same time.

 

Want to Scale Your Service Business Fast? Find Out Whether Your Business is “Scale-Ready” Right Now.

Want to Scale Your Service Business Fast?  Find Out Whether Your Business is “Scale-Ready” Right Now.

Do you know how to tell whether a Ramen joint is a good one? 

You test the place by ordering the simplest version with just broth, noodles and a few garnishes. No meat, no shellfish, no other exotic or expensive ingredients. 

The same goes for discovering the best Burger, Arepa, Dumplings, Pizza, Curry, etc.

Why?

The reason is: Simple dishes have nowhere to hide. They'd better be darn good with very limited ingredients.

With a fewer ingredients, it comes down to how a creator of that dish crafts ingredients by adding just enough skill to make it shine.

This is, by far, the hardest thing to do.

Instead of hiding behind bells and whistles, a creator must resist the urge to show off for the sake of his ego and let his dish do the magic.

 

Adding is easy. Subtracting is hard.

 

Not only is it hard to strip a dish down to bare minimum, but it's also hard NOT to feel inadequate.  Since it is so simple, the dish will be judged by the level of confidence, knowledge, and restraint that a creator possesses.

I know what you are about to ask.

“How is creating a simplest dish even relevant to scaling a business?”

The simple strategic concept below can help you create new milestones to scale your business. Also, you will find whether your business is “scale-ready” by answering 5 statements.

So, read on.  

 

Behind the Scenes 2: Create Your Signature Workshop from Scratch (Updates & 3 Tips for Digesting Feedback Effectively)

Behind the Scenes 2: Create Your Signature Workshop from Scratch (Updates & 3 Tips for Digesting Feedback Effectively)

It has been more than 6 months since I posted my first update on how I created my signature workshop in 3.5 weeks while I run my regular business.  In the post, I also shared what worked and what didn’t.

If you haven’t checked it out, you might want to do that first so that you get the backstory before diving into this one.

My original intention was to share my process of creating one then testing it so that you would be inspired to work on yours.  Since then, a lot has happened.  So, it is time to invite you back to this topic and see how it has evolved.

In this post, you are going to learn 2 things:

1.     Updates on how this effort of perfecting a workshop took an unexpected turn & what I took away from the experience.

2.     Tips on what to do once you collect feedback from participants.

By the way, you would appreciate knowing this fact, that I did not make this a priority for my business during the first half of this year.  What I am about to share did not come from actively promoting or developing the original workshop. 

Things just started to happen without me doing much to it.

Now, please don’t take this the wrong way.  I am not in anyway suggesting you to lock up your workshop and throw away the key and, expecting an offer or an invitation will magically appear without you lifting a finger.  Although I wasn’t actively working on it, it has always been on the back of my mind. 

This is key so that once you spot an opportunity, you can pull it out and look at it again from another perspective.  We will go deep into how to execute this in this post.

How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer Pt. 2: The Fine Art Painting Method

How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer Pt. 2: The Fine Art Painting Method

This is the part 2 of the 3-part series covering the topic of “How to Niche Down When You Have So Much to Offer.” 

Just to recap, part 1 covered the “what” and “why” of niching your services down like fine dining restaurant menus. (embed the link.)

I purposely used the fine dining model as an example to convey my point of how a refined, high ticket item will allow you to create a highly profitable service business without burning yourself out while executing.

In part 2, it is going to be all about “how” to explore your niche that works.  

With all the noise over on the internet, many are dismissing the fact that there are many, many highly profitable businesses that you would never hear or read about. 

Not only are they so profitable that they don’t need to conduct any sales, marketing and advertising campaigns, they are content with the kind of freedom they have with their lives without losing their love for their work.

Sounds too good to be true?

Well, let me tell you about my acupuncture doctor as a real-life example.  He is a multi-millionaire that you will never hear about (unless I tell you, of course.)

No fancy office. 

No fancy sign outside.  You’ll walk right pass it.

Occasional ads on one local super niche newspaper. 

That is about it.

He’s been running his business all by himself (no staff) at the same location for nearly 20 years.

You must be wondering, “What does he do that is so different from any other acupuncturists that is so profitable?”

Clients from Hell: 51 Ideas You Can Implement When Your Top Paying Clients are Ruining Your Life

Clients from Hell: 51 Ideas You Can Implement When Your Top Paying Clients are Ruining Your Life

You must have a horror story or two that involves "clients from hell." This may be a no-brainer, but I was surprised to find a website dedicated to sharing those horror stories. (https://clientsfromhell.net/) It seems they even have a podcast about it.

On the flip side, if you haven't had any experience dealing with clients from hell in your service business, you are leaving money on the table. 

“What?!,” you might ask.  You heard it right the first time. You are losing money.

How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer Pt. 1: The Fine Dining Menu Strategy

How to Niche Down Your Services When Your Business Has So Much to Offer Pt. 1: The Fine Dining Menu Strategy

Who says you can’t learn anything by just watching Netflix?  You can.  If you pay attention, that is.


The Netflix series, Chef's Table, is a secret obsession of mine.

The show is about the stories of highly regarded fine dining chefs who take you through their journey by candidly sharing their anguish, failures, creative process, adversity, breakthroughs, desire, resistance, recognition, and perfecting their craft as a chef as well as a business owner by finding their own voices through food.

No Budget? No Problem: The Magic Blueprint to Overcome "No Budget" Objections with Confidence

No Budget? No Problem: The Magic Blueprint to Overcome "No Budget" Objections with Confidence

This topic popped up when I was leading a strategy session with a video production duo the other day. 

They were feeling puzzled and slightly defeated.  I empathized as I knew these guys have been gun-ho about going after new leads to create more opportunities for their business.

Good news is, this is something you can fix. Here, I'm going to show you how to tackle “no budget” objections.  In a way, THIS IS THE GREATEST INDICATOR that you need to revisit your outreach strategy. You are lucky to face this problem (that you can totally fix.) So, read on.

The One Task These Leading Entrepreneurs Will Not Delegate or Automate: A Quick Guide to Deciding Which Tasks NOT to Delegate or Automate (and What You Can Do Instead to Leverage Your Time.)

The One Task These Leading Entrepreneurs Will Not Delegate or Automate: A Quick Guide to Deciding Which Tasks NOT to Delegate or Automate (and What You Can Do Instead to Leverage Your Time.)

"Delegation & automation" is a hot topic among business owners who are on the hunt to find ways to leverage their resources to grow their businesses without killing themselves in the process. 

The challenge is to do this process right.  Why do I know it's a challenge?  I know this because I get, frankly, underwhelming emails on daily basis as a result of doing this process all wrong.

Getting it wrong is one thing but losing opportunities by doing something else is another matter.  Might as well, don't do anything, right?

How to Show Up Like a True Entrepreneur: Working ON (Not IN) Your Business Made Easy with 5 Growth Drivers

How to Show Up Like a True Entrepreneur: Working ON (Not IN) Your Business Made Easy with 5 Growth Drivers

You, as an entrepreneur, recognize the importance of working ON your business and not IN it.  But, how often do you end up pushing this vital task aside because of your day-to-day (a.k.a. putting-out-fires) hands-on tasks?

“Too often” would be the most common answer to this question.

Let’s face it: We all tend to blame on getting caught up on imminent but unimportant tasks (in the big scheme of things) for not keeping up with our big vision sessions that can act as a leverage to grow your business exponentially. The truth is, that is not the real hold-up. 

What’s standing in our way is not having a robust and sustainable system that we can stick with.

Behind the Scenes: From Transactional to Transformational Workshop Creation

Behind the Scenes:  From Transactional to Transformational Workshop Creation

Do you have a signature workshop that showcases your expertise? 

If not, I strongly encourage you to create one because what sets a live workshop apart from other marketing activities such as Facebook Live, and short videos that are embedded in your site talking about your offers is that people get to see you in action.  It serves as a good sample of what their experience might be to work with you.

I have met too many agency owners and service business owners who have never considered this as part of their biz dev effort or their sales funnel.  That is truly a shame.  

Think about this for a second by putting yourself in your prospects’ shoe:

Is Being a Generalist Bad as an Entrepreneur?

Is Being a Generalist Bad as an Entrepreneur?

If you ask me, my answer will always be, "Absolutely not."  Being a generalist is a must-have requirement for all entrepreneurs.

That’s the answer to the question.  As much as I just want to finish this post right here (as I tend to look for excuses not to write), I know I need to explain, not only how to become a good generalist, but also why it is important to be one. I will do exactly that. So, stay with me.